Zenon,

Shooting with full gels will neutralise more the ambient lighting, I personally shoot 1/2 CTS and immediately change my WB to K3850, depends on how much ambient I decide to let in, the more ambient, may need to adjust the WB to suit.

Outside if I am shooting and let ambient in, I usually need to up WB to around the 4400-4800 range. Inside, I usually try to stick to around the 4000 range with flash being dominant.

Trev

Thanks

Actually I was thinking about this more. A few years ago I asked this question on another forum - POTN actually. At the time I was not aware that a full gel was 80/20. I asked when gelling will the scene not look the way people witnessed it. Even though our eyes adjust WB much better than the camera does most wedding events there is a warmer atmosphere. I guess the 1/2 gel answers that question.

I suppose that is personal preference. Actually now that I think about it a business meeting type event you may want it cooler and a wedding warmer.

I found the info about gels. Looks like Neil likes to use 1/2 to maintain that warm glow at the venue. I used to wonder about that. If you gel to remove most of it it does not look like what your eyes saw. Our eyes are far batter at adjuring to WB than the camera is but the warmth is nice look.

when i started with gels i was not aware that there was such thing as half cuts and i was wondering why my pics with gel looked a little off, then i got a half cut cts and now my pics look way more natural at about 4000K, with a full cut i feel the background toungsten lights get rendered too white

Zenon said: I found the info about gels. Looks like Neil likes to use 1/2 to maintain that warm glow at the venue. I used to wonder about that. If you gel to remove most of it it does not look like what your eyes saw. Our eyes are far batter at adjuring to WB than the camera is but the warmth is nice look.

That's it in a nutshell.

Looking for a sanity check please. Have an indoor gig coming up. Will do a pre-light early next week and can post the room. In the mean I use the 5D II +580 on camera. Plan on bouncing the flash. Out of the box thinking of using : 1/2 CTS. So aside from metering & setting my camera am I looking at +.7 FEC on the flash (for the flash model I use) + .5 FEC for light lost through the gel for a total of +1.3 FEC on the Flash?

LDallek,

It's not as simple as saying because of a certain flash type I'll add +.7 FEC and + .5 FEC because of shooting through a gel.

Your camera itself, [it 'may' underexpose/overexpose normally regardless if set in manual mode, inherent in many cameras, as not all give that perfect 0 exposure, I always had to give my Canon 5D MkII a +0.3] plus lighting conditions and many other varied factors come into play when shooting with bounced/gelled flash.

There is only 1 method to use. Suck it and see. Simply put the flash/gelled on camera, set camera to manual to get the ambient light 'you' want, set flash to 0 FEC and fire, not enough? give it +, too much? dial it down.

Pretty soon, after practice, you will just know your 'starting' point when going to indoor events.

At Receptions, I automatically put my ISO up to 1600, shutter to 80th to 125th, f4.0 with flash at 0 FEC. 8/10 times I get the desired result, but can soon quickly on the fly change the flash +/-. Of course that's my preferred way to work and I am constantly changing settings if I need to, when moving to different sections of the room.

Remember, if bouncing, you need to take into consideration how far the bounced light is coming from, color of wall/ceiling, and particularly in many venues I shoot, they have hung plenty of bridal ribbons, streamers from ceiling and some of those are white/black/red/whatever, so they can also affect/block the bounced flash and you need to increase FEC and/or open up the camera more.

Getting a general idea of the room beforehand is a good idea, but ask them can they put the lighting on to what it will be on the night, so you know what it will be actually like. Of course you should view room at night to take out the ambient factor coming in any windows of the room from daylight.

Trev.

PS: Shoot RAW, hopefully that's a given.

Some really good feedback here. Looking for some guidance and thoughts...

I have recently shot a number of events at a venue with varied light . Large Hall (200x200ft). Concrete walls and ceiling, with Tapestries on some walls. Hieght is about 20 with open light in some spots coming through domes. Big Windows at the back but not full width of hall . Stage at the front and 2 long windows on each side of the hall. Tungsten light - lots of little bulbs in chandeliers not on full power. Yes, interesting venue. As you move around, the WB changes. Some spots a darker and need more flash others have great ambient light ....

Gear: D300
24-70 f/2.8
On- Camera SB900 with Lumiquest Softbox Mod.on Flash.. I really like this setup when shooting direct.
SB9 Battery pack

Pre setup:
Set ISO 1100
f stop typically around 3.5-5
Shutter no less than 1/80...people moving and typically 1/125 to 1/200
Take my ambient reading
-1 to -2 stops below. Typically adjusting f stop or Shutter speed (depending on what I am going for and the dials are real quick and easy to move)
Shooting RAW (thank goodness).
AWB setting.

As the event unfolds:
If facing the subject is 12 O'clock.
I will bounce flash to 7 or 8 o'clock or 4 or 5 o'clock. Too cumbersome to put on and take off the Modifier. So I leave it on.
Or I will shoot head on for a wider shot.
I will chimp and reset FEC (up or down)

Nothing static for the events a lot of people and a lot movement. Typically a few speeches at the stage and either sit down luncheons or theater style sitting or simply people mingling.

As I look at my pictures my WB is awful. I really struggle with this. In a number of shots the background looks garish (orangey). I use LR3 (I really like this program) and even with that, post production is onerous. Each event shoot is between 200-400 pics.

I have tried gelling in the past - but never quite sure which gel to use or what WB to set at. Grey cards - out of the question. Tried this; my PRE settings didn't work well and I found this ineffective. May have been me but I need something more solid than this. I have tried 1/2CTS. Results were pretty good. But I have been back in the hall at different times of the day and the light settings have changed so as expected, can't count on the 1/2 CTS working all the time. I can certainly put something else on - but need to know how to determine what to put on and what setting to use on the camera (pre, or K - the perconditioned settings to me are like program mode; they have a use but they may not fit) ! Also if I need to pull this off I need to remove the Modifier. Do I really need to remove it all for the whole shoot? Sometimes, If have had to step outside to take a few pics there and then come back inside.

So Ideally indoors, I would l like to gel the flash, get close to the right WB, set that up on the Camera and leave the mod on. Will rip it off for outside shots. Am also debating going BFT (Black Foamy Thing) all the way and getting rid of the Mod. which would give me full access to the gel - I must admit I have been a little shy trying the BFT at a live event....

Here's the clincher - I am officially color blind (it is what it is) - so I am looking for some methodology I can adapt that can lock WB far more accurately. I would be open to purchasing an Expodisc- if it would really help....perhaps someone has some experience with this and a flash unit (gelled?)

Looking for ideas on how to go about getting the right WB with ease as I move around this hall capturing moments. Looking for a process that can be replicated for different times of the day in the same hall - as light changes. Ideally like to get this right in-Camera, at the event, but am open to ideas on doing this post production. I am sure there's a bunch of really smart folks out on this forum, who have run into this and figured it out already!

All feedback welcome. Thanks!

all the expo discs and grey cards in the world wouldn't get u correct white balance when u have two or more different colored light sources contributing to your exposure,

when dealing with tungsten and flash contributing to ur exposure, start with gelling ur flash with a half cts and change ur WB to aprox 3800K, when dealing with those super dim small tungsten bulbs u may want to try a full cts and 3200K

when u have skylights contributing daylight to your exposure then ur really in trouble, because if u gel for tungsten then the sunlight will give a blue cast to ur photos and if u don't gel ur flash then the tungsten will be that deep orangy yellow, so u have to decide which lightsource is more prominent, so if for instance the skylights r contributing more light than the tungsten lights then u will not gel ur flash and if the tungsten is the dominant light source then u wil gel ur flash to match it

yes you're right...we have light streaming in from the large window at the back and the windows on the sides (depends on type and time of day) , bulbs that can be brightened or dimmed and the domes/skylights!

So good suggesstions.

Thanks!